Atheist wins right to have baptism removed

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Labbie
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Atheist wins right to have baptism removed

Post by Labbie » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:13 pm

Atheist wins right to have baptism removed as he did not consent as a baby

An atheist has won the right to have his baptism removed from Church of England records after claiming he was too young to give his consent to the ceremony.

John Hunt, a newly qualified nurse, was baptised at the age of five months at the parish church of St Jude with St Aidin in Thornton Heath, south London.

As a schoolboy he decided he did not believe in God and stopped going to Sunday school aged 11.

Now 56 and living in Croydon, he said he wanted parish records amended to note he did not consent to the baptism in 1953.

He was told that his baptism cannot be deleted because it is a matter of historical record.

He then secured a "de-baptism" certificate produced by the National Secular Society (NSS), rejecting "superstitions" or the idea of original sin.

It reads: "I reject all its creeds and other such superstitions in particular the perfidious belief that any baby needs to be cleansed of original sin."

This week the church backed down and said the entry would be "corrected".

A representative of Southwark diocese told him: "I have spoken to the Archdeacon of Croydon and he has undertaken, in this particular case, to have it cross-referenced with the baptismal entry and pasted into the back fly-leaf of the relevant register at St Jude's Church." Dr Hunt, a former software engineer, said: "I am delighted that on this occasion the church are going to do what they said they would do."

He added: "It's about time that some of us stood up to be counted. I am hoping that others will follow my lead.

"It is important that we send a signal to the church and to the Government that an increasing proportion of the population don't place any faith in the various churches.

"The fact that we have 26 bishops in the House of Lords is an anachronism."

The NSS said an estimated 100,000 people had downloaded similar certificates from its website over the past five years, producing mock official versions and has had to order more parchment to meet demand.

Terry Sanderson, the NSS president, last month said the certificate was originally a "tongue in cheek" joke but conceded that the procedure was now being taken serious by a growing number of atheists.
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Post by Sarge_II » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:55 pm

Gee, what else didn't they consent to as a baby?

Let's try ... being born?!?

So, can they annul their birth certificates? And if they do, does that mean they magically disappear and all history of their acts and interactions are somehow rewritten as if they'd never existed.

Sweet. That'd be a cool way to deal with their logic.
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Post by Labbie » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:59 pm

LOL Sarge.


If only we could...
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Post by MzSnowleopard » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:39 pm

Jeez- the atheists I know don't really care about things like this- they just put it out of their minds.
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Post by Dark Angel » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:58 am

Labbie wrote:LOL Sarge.


If only we could...
I was kinda thinking the same thing
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Post by Thorin » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:03 am

An atheist has won the right to have his baptism removed from Church of England records after claiming he was too young to give his consent to the ceremony.
Well there is a reason why many of the so-called "sects" don't baptize babies but have a minimum age: the person has to be able to decide themselves if they take this offer or not. Even in the Bible they teach that children are without sin (they don't KNOW the difference between wrong and right) so they don't need to be baptized, and that the baptism is a concious decision for God. Babies and little children are unable to make such a decision by themselves.
Hence, according to my own understanding of the Scriptures and of what baptism is standing for, each and any baptism that happened before the baptized person was at least teenager, and was not done by immersion, has been and wil be simply invalid - according to the Bible.
:smt036
So... why should one stay a member of a church they never consciously decided to attend?
He was told that his baptism cannot be deleted because it is a matter of historical record.
This is an excuse which comes from the old times when the church records were the only historical records about people - but this has changed throughout the last centuries. :smt003

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Post by MzSnowleopard » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:34 am

In some churches it would be considered a 'christening'- or ceremonial blessing with holy water. In the Baptist church it's more of a 'presenting to the congregation' and swearing with witnesses to raise the baby by the 'Lord's teachings'... Baptism comes when a child reaches the 'age of accountability' - which can be as young as 7 years old. It really depends on what age the child comes to understanding.

It's difficult if not impossible, to discuss this without expressing my own religious beliefs. I'm impressed with the 'restraint' shown in this thread. :smt023
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Post by motionSymmetry » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:30 am

MzSnowleopard wrote:I'm impressed with the 'restraint' shown in this thread. :smt023
mmm, several things

1. tho it is bad logic, committing such an act implicitly gives a nod to some substance in religion that atheism would deny, the social implication is what validates such acts. there is too much of a resurgence of all the bad things historically associated with blind religion. people need to be reminded of the goodness of having a choice, and not just lip service which is had at the price of true freedom, subtly or not-so-subtly coerced by the violence hiding in false religious "tolerance", but real choice. the voice of intellectual religionists seems never to be heard anymore, and so the extremism is only met by the voices of rational nonbelievers

2. you were right to put the word "restraint" in quotes, MzSnowleopard, as - speaking of hostile implications - the bent of the comments about not being born pretty much wishes all atheists dead, that that would somehow make the world better

3. the problem is not religion itself, but in the current and persistent religious rhetoric you would never know that because the voices of reason are drowned out by the whirlpool of the unthinking - and that Scylla seems always to have religion in its waters

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Post by Sparrow » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:18 pm

In the interest of full disclosure, I was born into the Lutheran church and baptized as an infant. If forced to label myself now, the label is agnostic. That's "a-gnostic" vs "a-theist". Two very different things. Over the decades many things were done with, to, for, and by me which I'm not happy about today. Some of these things I stuggle with daily, others are totally max nix. I cannot imagine why I'd spend one nanosecond being unhappy about being baptised as an infant in a church which is now a vacant lot, by people with nothing but love and good intentions for me.

Would I be trying to give God the finger? Hmmm...That sounds a lot like having a fight with an imaginary friend, if you're an atheist.

Am I getting even with my family? Well...They're mostly dead, so either they'll never know or I'd better rethink this atheist business.

Is my ex a True Believer I'm trying to get even with? Might work....

Have I fallen off my meds again, and the voices are telling me to do this? Possible....

Am I just another lo-skill, no-talent video baby looking for my 15 minutes and hits on Youtube? Sounds likely.
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