CC Team Debate; Week 1

Anything related to activities for the team.
Post Reply
User avatar
Dances with Werewolves
Chaotic Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:00 am
Location: Southwest USA
Contact:

CC Team Debate; Week 1

Post by Dances with Werewolves » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:42 pm

In attendance; Labbie, Buga1, TimeLord04, and DWW as Moderator. Conviened October 26, 2006 at 11:00 PM GMT.
In copying the content of the debate care was taken to preserve the content of the autors thought although some of the gramer and spelling may have been automatically corrected by my text editor.

My role was to direct the flow of debate, hence moderator. Each person was given a turn to answer the question; Are ghost hauntings real or an aberration of the psyche?

Labbie:
I think they are mostly an aberration of the psyche. It seems to be the same people that experience these things. Seeing what they want to see. I supposedly stayed in a haunted room once in the Cresent Hotel in Eureka Springs Ark. and experienced nothing, when the staff claimed that ghost was active every night.

Buga1:
Partially agree. People see what they want to see. I think some will see and feel things that makes the brain rush. But others dismiss the same feelings. As I have had both feelings at the same time. Don't know if I should continue as it might lead into what I was thinking of saying. Thoughts are not fully coming out all that great.

TL:
OK... That is valid. You experienced nothing; however, that does not necessarily imply that this particular Hotel is either haunted or not... It just means that on that particular night, nothing out of the ordinary happened for you. However; (after watching "Ghost Hunters" last night and viewing other similar shows throughout my life), and talking with friends in College... There are many unexplained Paranormal Phenomena out there. How would one explain all of the other data out there? Winchester Mystery House, the Queen Mary, Willard Library are some examples. I personally have felt the presence of "something" or "several" somethings from High School, to present. I even had certain dreams with relatives in the dreams years after these relatives have past on... I believe that there is a definite possibility to the existence of "ghosts" and "ghostly" phenomenon.

Labbie:
Like Houdini, I want to believe. No one has ever offered any proof that I can accept. The Crescent Hotel is a former hospital from the Spanish Flu epidemic and MANY people died there. They had pictures of the ghosts (supposedly). I've felt strange things too, but those feelings could still be an aberration of the mind. Dreams too can just be your subconscious playing with you.

TL:
Yes, dreams "can just be... ...subconscious", suggestions; however, like the decades that people swore a large black and white bear did not exist either... Then, suddenly proof - the Chinese Panda Bear is a reality... It may take time; I choose to keep an open heart and mind to the whole idea. Much Paranormal Activity has been recorded. As technology keeps developing; someday the "Paranormal Panda" may come to light.

Labbie:
I too keep an open mind, I want all the paranormal stuff to be true, it would make our life so much more interesting. Maybe it takes a special person, brain type, whatever, to really be able to detect these things.

Buga1:
I wouldn't say special person. I think more right circumstances

Labbie:
Circumstances? Meaning right place, right time?

Buga1:
Pretty much

Labbie:
thanks for the clarification

TL:
Yes, dreams "can just be... ...subconscious", suggestions; however, like the decades that people swore a large black and white bear did not exist either... Then, suddenly proof - the Chinese Panda Bear is a reality... It may take time; I choose to keep an open heart and mind to the whole idea. Much Paranormal Activity has been recorded. As technology keeps developing; someday the "Paranormal Panda" may come to light. restated for the argument.
Just like everything technological that has come before... The camera, the car, the plane... Somehow, someday, science is going to find and create a tool for us that will prove the existence of the paranormal world. It is just going to take time. It may even be beyond my lifetime, and/or my son's lifetime; however, I do believe that some piece of technology will be developed to yield conclusively the world and realm of the paranormal. Then we can better understand "them" and if, (as many Paranormal Scientists believe), these beings need help to "move on", that is when we will be able to communicate with them and help them.

Labbie:
Circumstances then, are pretty much everything. Right frame of mind, ghosties deciding to play in our dimension at the exact time someone is looking for it, seems to be pretty coincidental. I'll admit that there seem to be places that have more "activity" than others. But the question remains, Why do those places have the all the activity? It usually comes down to what happened at that place in the past. And usually sad things. Don't know about you, but I don't hang around too much where sad things have happened to me. As for the technology, there are already "detectors" you can buy over the internet. Just what do these devices detect? I can rig an ohmmeter to detect voltages in the air, are they doing the same thing? What do they know so they can build these detectors?

Buga1:
I just don't think the tech exists yet to fully prove it yet
will continue in my answer, OK maybe I got this sort of. I wouldn't want to say necessary
Ghosts. I guess they could be called ghosts but I don’t think they are only people from our time. I have had the felling of seeing something (real, un-real) a couple of times. Also my thoughts are towards different dimensions. So to me they are from a parallel area. Maybe past or present of there time though. I just think there is still so much un-known that I have a hard time dismissing anything. But have had a few odd moments (2 or 3) personally that was just to unexplainable. I think that they will stop using the ghost term and have the know-how to prove Ghosts are or the parallel side of things.

Labbie:
I can agree with that statement.

TL:
For me it is more a matter of faith. I believe in Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. I cannot prove the existence of the Holy Spirit; but faith allows me to "feel" the presence of that spirit. Likewise, I believe we all can "feel" the presence of these "Paranormal" beings and energies. We may not have the tools to understand and define these beings and energies; yet, however, it does not invalidate my belief that they are real. Just as the Holy Spirit, and Christ's healing powers exist and are real. There is an after life. We just cannot prove it with today’s technologies.

Buga1:
OK maybe I got this sort of. I wouldn't want to say necessary
Ghosts. I guess they could be called ghosts but I don’t think they are only people from our time. I have had the felling of seeing something (real, un-real) a couple of times. Also my thoughts are towards different dimensions. So to me they are from a parallel area. Maybe past or present of there time though. I just think there is still so much un-known that I have a hard time dismissing anything. But have had a few odd moments (2 or 3) personally that was just to unexplainable. I think that they will stop using the ghost term and have the know-how to prove Ghosts are or the parallel side of things, hope that makes since

TL:
That is another strong possibility; and you are not alone in that line of thinking. (By the way, Buga1, you are doing fine.) :D

Parallel dimensions are another possibility for "ghosts". As stated by Buga1; these other dimensions may just be alternate realities or places of parallel existences. Thus these beings may not be "ghosts" as we are, (and have been), defining them... We won't know for sure until technology comes up with that one true device that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the Paranormal World really is, and whom these beings really are. Until then it goes back to being a matter of belief and faith. For me, this is what I hold onto.

Labbie:
Response to Buga's last post - I wish they would drop the ghost label, as it conveys the "dead people" label. And agree with Buga that inter-dimensional visitations are probably more credible than dead people, And, that we don’t have the technology to detect these events. But how can we get the technology when we don't know what to look for? Like most earth shaking discoveries, it will have to be an accidental one. Response to TL I'm typing now.

Faith is a wonderful thing, and I have my own that I'm sure isn't that different than yours. Faith can keep you going during bad times and good times. You can't argue against someone's faith. And I won't.

TL:
I respect that, and thank you for your honesty. In my faith, Jesus will return. At that point ALL things will be made whole. That is, "the veil" that precludes us right now from knowing and proving these and other things right now in this existence will be lifted. When that happens; ALL things from the beginning of time will be made known to us. That will be the ultimate proof of what "is". However, in the meantime we, (as a race), will continue to struggle and learn. We will obtain the knowledge to make the tool(s) that we need; when we absolutely need to have that/those tools. Then we will begin to open those doors to the Paranormal with more certainty. I also believe that when this happens we will also be closer to Christ's return.

Buga1:
I think the things were hear about a lot are more of a line off things that over time became overly hyped. In ways. I do think there is something behind them. But drama always seems to get the best of us. Everyone has there own believes and that has a lot to do with.

TL:
There is truth in that. But setting aside the drama and listening instead to "the still small voice", (the Holy Spirit), will keep us in line with what needs to be done/completed in this lifetime. Once we, (as a race), reach and attain the goals set forth by Heavenly Father; then, we will be ready for Christ's return and the "veil" to be lifted. That will be when we will "know all things", past and present. Truly, I cannot expound any further. Thus I close with this last statement. This has been fun.

Buga1:
Agreed TL. Not all people want to look beyond the drama. I do believe in God and we only know a small percent of the grand total.

Labbie:
Drama sells. And most of the "professional" "Paranormal Experts" have something to sell. I would love to see someone like Richard Branson (Virgin Airways owner, the World's Most Carefree Billionaire) set up a foundation to look into these things. He doesn't need the money, so it might have more credible results than some of the stuff I've seen. and I close with that unless someone wants to rebut it.

TL:
...and closed... Going once.

Buga1:
I’m good.
Was a fun discussion.

Labbie:
Yes it was.

DWW:
And we are closed.

The following is some of the banter that ensued.


DWW:
Do we want to continue the debates or open forum with a topic

Labbie:
what's the difference?

TL:
I'm open; this debate was fun, though.

DWW:
The reason debates are moderated is to get each other’s point across with as little emotionalism.

Buga1
Would be interesting to see other thoughts that couldn’t make it

DWW:
Yup and a continued discussion on the forum is the alternative.

Labbie:
I see. Debate = moderated, open forum = argument?

TL:
Oh, now that would be interesting. Make a Thread a Week; Posting therein the contents of our Debates.

Labbie:
:D

TL:
Let the Forums continue where we leave off each week. I really like that. That gives everyone on Forums a chance to participate and continue the debate.

Labbie:
(adding to the forums) would also allow those that couldn't make the appointed time to chime in their thoughts.
[url=http://allprojectstats.com/showteam.php?id=125048][img]http://allprojectstats.com/ts125048a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://allprojectstats.com/showuser.php?id=122105][img]http://allprojectstats.com/s122105a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://www.unitedboinc.com][img]http://www.unitedboinc.com/news-sig/Black-1-14noqs-4g4s8w.png[/img][/url]

User avatar
Knightmare
Keeper of the Calm
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:27 am
Contact:

Post by Knightmare » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:42 pm

Hmmm....ok let's see here.

Having actually seen a ghost, I have to say that the statement made about the "right circumstances and the right frame of mind " isn't entirely accurate.

I say that because there really IS NO frame of mind that applies. Let me rephrase that by saying that the only frame of mind that would apply would be "open".

To say that seeing a ghost is partially a frame ofmind would indicate that someone was actually looking for them. In my case, that was not how it happened.

Before I actually saw one ( and yes...it was a dead person ) I never had any kind of opinion or interest in the subject. So the only frame of mind I would have been in would have been open mindedness.

That being said, I do think that there are people who may be more susceptible (sp?) to seeing ghosts than others.

I really don't believe that seeing ghosts or whatever you want to call it is merely an abberation. In some cases, it may be just that, but I don't believeALL of them fall under that veil.
_________________
Looking for the Calm amid all this Chaos[/b]
Image
Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Image

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:43 pm

I think your on to something KM, if you open your mind to the possibility of the existence of spirits, ghost, shodow people, ect: then you are more likely to see something and recognize it for what it is instead of just blowing it off to something a close minded person would just rationalize. I mean alot of people out ther would state" I believe in the existance of UFO'S but would deny the existence of the paranormal. I think once you know longer limit your thinking to a three dimensional universe and open your mind to the fact thatt there are many dimensions out there then that would be a good first step in opening your mind up for new possibilities..

User avatar
Dances with Werewolves
Chaotic Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:00 am
Location: Southwest USA
Contact:

Post by Dances with Werewolves » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:43 pm

There is a difference between open, concious, informed choice and suggestibility. That is what we basically need to accomplish here is education to the possibilities first to ourselves then to others.
When we can make sense of the truth and dispose of the rhetoric we should know enough to be able to manipulate some small portion of the paranormal providing proof to ourselves that one is on the correct path. There will always be parts that will be out of reach because we are corporial beings and confined to this "locked up existence" unable to manipulate those other dimensions where the paranormal thrives. Maybe elevation to a higher plane of existence is what it will take in order for the human race as a whole to fully understand and be part of those demensions.

Now what did I just say? I don't know you figure it out.
[url=http://allprojectstats.com/showteam.php?id=125048][img]http://allprojectstats.com/ts125048a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://allprojectstats.com/showuser.php?id=122105][img]http://allprojectstats.com/s122105a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://www.unitedboinc.com][img]http://www.unitedboinc.com/news-sig/Black-1-14noqs-4g4s8w.png[/img][/url]

User avatar
Knightmare
Keeper of the Calm
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:27 am
Contact:

Post by Knightmare » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:44 pm

Suggestability is PART of having an open mind though. You have to be suggestable to that type of thing to keep your mind from being closed off from it. That doesn't, however remove the concious, informed part of the equation.
Looking for the Calm amid all this Chaos[/b]
Image
Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Image

User avatar
Dances with Werewolves
Chaotic Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:00 am
Location: Southwest USA
Contact:

Post by Dances with Werewolves » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:44 pm

Knightmare wrote:Suggestability is PART of having an open mind though. You have to be suggestable to that type of thing to keep your mind from being closed off from it. That doesn't, however remove the concious, informed part of the equation.
Suggestibility to me states one has an tendency to be drawn in mindlessly.

Somewhat supported by; The definition of suggestibility from Encarta Dictionary:
1.The condition of being easily influenced by other people’s suggestions.
2.Psychology a mental state in which somebody accepts without question the ideas, attitudes, or instructions of others, usually occurring under hypnosis.

Probably why it brings forth a negative implication to me in this context.

There is no one here like this I hope!
[url=http://allprojectstats.com/showteam.php?id=125048][img]http://allprojectstats.com/ts125048a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://allprojectstats.com/showuser.php?id=122105][img]http://allprojectstats.com/s122105a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://www.unitedboinc.com][img]http://www.unitedboinc.com/news-sig/Black-1-14noqs-4g4s8w.png[/img][/url]

User avatar
Knightmare
Keeper of the Calm
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:27 am
Contact:

Post by Knightmare » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:45 pm

Under that definition, no. That is not the type of suggestibility I mean.

What I mean is that they don't completely close off their minds to the possibility. They saw it suggested and decided to keep an open mind about it, but didn't take the suggestion as fact.
Looking for the Calm amid all this Chaos[/b]
Image
Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Image

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:45 pm

Do you believe in people like Edgar Casey, and such people who are able to either see on another plane and/or communicate with "the other side"?

User avatar
Dances with Werewolves
Chaotic Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:00 am
Location: Southwest USA
Contact:

Post by Dances with Werewolves » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:47 pm

@ KM
I actually do know what you mean, receptability to new and or different ideas. I agree with you really and being receptive is part of being open in my statement. You see the difference?


@DB
If you are asking me Brian, Edgar Casey is probably one of those people that was able to escape the confines of the corporial being I just don't know if he affected the reality of the other demensions as much as they affected ours through him. I liken his ability to a radio reciever not a two way radio. I could be wrong since all I know of him I saw on the Biograph channel.
[url=http://allprojectstats.com/showteam.php?id=125048][img]http://allprojectstats.com/ts125048a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://allprojectstats.com/showuser.php?id=122105][img]http://allprojectstats.com/s122105a0a.png[/img][/url][url=http://www.unitedboinc.com][img]http://www.unitedboinc.com/news-sig/Black-1-14noqs-4g4s8w.png[/img][/url]

Post Reply

Return to “Team Activities”